Uh oh…..so you’ve got a period lath and plaster ceiling that needs to come down hmm? Luckily, it’s not all bad news, but I won’t lie to you, it can be hard work and very messy! That said, taking down a lath and plaster ceiling is an perfectly possible DIY project, even for relative beginners. Taking lath and plaster down should arguably be a last resort though, (if you want to repair your lath and plaster ceiling, follow the link to the “How to Repair Lath and Plaster Ceilings” page next door instead). But if your ceilings are economically beyond repair, it’s understandable that you want all the mess out of the way now, while you are still upside down. Fair enough then, enough with the burb, lets get on with the job.
What you need to take down a lath & plaster ceiling….
Some Tools… (obviously, unless you’re really, really strong…)
Fortunately you won’t need many and you may already have them in your tool kit.
- Working platform, sturdy step ladders or builders trestles etc
- Claw hammer or other lightish hammer.
- Gauging or brick trowel.
- Crowbar / Wrecking Bar / Pry Bar
- Pick axe (optional but useful for getting the old laths down).
- Clean up gear. Shovel, sweeping brush, dustpan etc and vacuum cleaner (preferably not the missus’s best one!).
Optional other gear… (depending on your situation)
- Dust protection such as Polythene and dustsheets.
- Rubble sacks (or Gorilla style tubs if you have a skip).
- Electrical screwdrivers for removing old light fittings.
- Temporary lighting if required.
The mess…….
Before you start please consider………”The mess”
It gets messy?……Oh yeah. It gets really, really, really messy. Seriously, it makes so much dust that I recommend that you remove everything from the room and seal off the doors with masking tape before you start. Oh, and in case you were wondering, this kitchen was coming out. You can also just make out the trestles which, when coupled with scaffold battens made a perfect working platform for removing this high ceiling. All that mess comes from the accumulated dust on top of your old plasterwork and from within the plasterwork itself. The dust is very fine in particle size and it gets everywhere, really, I mean it, everywhere! If you have to sheet down some stuff, I would recommend that you include a polythene layer as the dust is often fine enough to go through the average dust sheet. Don’t ask me how I discovered that little gem as a young apprentice!
Lighting
Once the room is cleared and sheeted down, including the floor, you may need to install your temporary lighting and remove any light fittings in the ceiling and make safe any wires that you disconnect (don’t forget to isolate the supply first!). Obviously if you tackle the job in broad daylight and there are windows……
Ventilation
Bit obvious this one, but you should open any windows if you can and don’t forget your dust mask!
Step by step guide to take down your lath and plaster ceiling….
Removing a lath and plaster ceiling is a three stage process (assuming that you are removing it from underneath). Read removing lath and plaster from above if applicable.
- Remove the plaster using a claw hammer or similar and a stout trowel. Working in front of yourself, tap the plasterwork with your hammer to break it up and if it doesn’t drop away, keep tapping it and then either use the claw on your hammer or lever the plasterwork off with the trowel. On really poor ceilings the trowel can be slid underneath the plasterwork and large pieces can be levered away.
- First clear up. It’s really important to clear away at the end of stage 1, when all the plaster is on the floor. You don’t need to sweep up necessarily, just get the big stuff cleared away using a shovel (otherwise the next stage will make a huge pile of lath reinforced plaster that is a bugger to clear up!).
- The next step is to remove the laths. I usually use a ‘pick axe’ of all things! I slide the blade through a few laths and then place the head of the pick-axe onto the bottom of a joist and lever down large sections of laths. You might want to start small and use a claw hammer or pry bar (crow bar). The laths usually break into smallish sections.
- The final step is to remove the nails (apart from clearing up!) that were holding up the laths. This is usually fairly tedious and time consuming as they are very numerous and rusty. Oh, and you must not miss any, not even one. Believe me, you will curse when you are plaster-boarding if you try to put a board up and there is a nail in the middle somewhere! Sometimes you can pull them out with a claw hammer or pry bar, sometimes they snap off sideways with a blow from the hammer and sometimes you just need to hammer them in! You’ll work out what’s best for your job quickly enough.
Go and have a cup of coffee and a break to let the dust settle 😀
Back so soon? Right, next is the dirty clearing up bit.
When clearing up please take your time, if you work slowly and carefully you will cause less dust to ‘go airborne’. Slide the shovel slowly under the rubble, lift it gently, being careful not to spill dust off the side and gently put it into the bucket/sack slowly sliding the rubble off. Whereas, if you throw the stuff all over the place the room will quickly fill up with dust.
- Start with gathering up all the fallen laths, breaking up any long lengths and put into rubble sacks, skip or wood pile for burning.
- Now you will see lots of plaster on the floor again. This is the mortar (snots, nibs or keys) that was sitting on top of the laths after being pushed up through the gaps in the laths to provide a key for the plasterwork. Scrape up the mortar with a shovel or dustpan and remove again.
Did I mention the dust when taking down a lath and plaster ceiling
- That leaves the dust. This can be swept up and bagged for disposal. You might want to try minimizing the airborne dust by damping down with a garden sprayer, but I’ll be honest, it is not that effective and the existing mess will be considerable anyway.
Lath, plaster and all nails all removed. This ceiling is almost ready for plasterboards.
Now you are ready for re-boarding with plasterboard, but first you will probably be getting the electrician to install new cables for those fancy new down-lights that you want!
- TIP 1: Don’t forget to grab a pencil and put a vertical mark on the wall about an inch and a half long (40mm) that indicates where the center of the joist is. This makes finding your fixing point so much easier when you are boarding.
- TIP 2: If the ceiling joists are anything other than straight across along the whole length, i.e. if there is any ‘trimmed’ areas that won’t be logical once the plasterboard has been offered up. Consider taking photographs of the joist layout; you’ll be glad you did if you get stuck and can’t find anything to fix to once you are boarding!
- Tip 3: Now is a good time to check the joists for ‘flatness’, extra timber can be fixed to the joists to level up slopes or dips etc at this stage. Some people even ‘cross batten’ the ceiling with 2″x2″ timber at 90 degrees to the joists..
Hopefully that gives you a good understanding of what’s involved in taking down a lath and plaster ceiling or even how to repair your plaster and lath ceiling. Make no mistake, tackling lath & plaster is not a decision to take lightly and certainly not a job to attempt yourself, unless you can tolerate a heck of a lot of mess and drama for a few hours.
Good luck with yours and feel free to get in touch you need more help.
Related useful information
Removing a lath and plaster ceiling from above
I’ll briefly mention removing a ceiling from above as it is a popular method if you have easy access to the ceiling from above (either from inside the loft space or if the floorboards have been taken up on a full renovation job of an empty house). Working from above you can simply push the whole lath and plaster ceiling down into the room below, using a shovel, sledge hammer or even your boots. Simply tap the back of the laths close to and either side of the joists with your preferred tool (I recommend a lightish long handled 7lb sledgehammer) Although I can see the merit of working from above (easier work and less mess lands on you), I don’t recommend this method as it is inherently dangerous. Great care must be taken not to fall through the joists. Jumping around safely on ‘open joists’ requires years of practice. I also find the resulting heap of debris very difficult to clear away, because the lath and plaster become so impossibly tangled and mixed up that separating them is very time consuming. Thus losing any time saved by kicking the ceilings down quickly from above.
What have you learned from taking down your lath and plaster ceilings? Leave a comment, you might help someone else!
Need More Information or Help?
Urban legend has it that you only need to read six books on a subject to be classed as an ‘expert’. So, here are some books I found interesting which will be useful to get you started! Or drop me a comment and ask a question.
All available from amazon.co.uk, (or here at amazon.com for the rest of the world), just follow the links to have a peek!
A Practical Guide to Care and Repair, by Roger Hunt and Marianne Suhr. Hardback.
Don’t be deceived, this book may be at home on the coffee table, but it packs a lot of really useful information into its pages. Passed and approved by my favorite ‘Institute’, the guys at SPAB, the Society for the Protection of Ancient Buildings.
The book teaches you to work with your house, not fight it. Repair not restore or renovate. If you are into minimalism, white flat surfaces and recessed downlights, this book may be a shock for you, as it educates us to live with a buildings character, not destroy it.
maintenance of historic buildings
Maintenance of Historic Buildings
A Practical Handbook, by Jurgen Klemisch.
A practical, hands-on guide to the maintenance of your older house. Based on many years of experience, this book teaches you the current best practices related to maintenance and is presented using a straightforward logical format.
In two sections the book deals with maintenance for use by owners and how to conduct condition surveys. The book makes extensive use of helpful checklists, work cards detailing routine cleaning, deep cleaning, inspection, servicing and redecoration; and even spreadsheets to help plan your maintenance.
Following the books recommendations would also (over time) build a useful record about your house, which will be helpful when deciding the timing of future repairs and allow you to assess costs accurately.
A damp house is a dying house……
A Guide to the Causes and Treatment of Dampness, by Jonathan Hetreed. Hardback.
I thought that I would include this book because as the owner of an older property you will soon come to learn that water or damp is the mortal enemy of your house!
Managing the moisture and water, on, in and around your home is vital in the battle to preserve and protect it.
From the patio to the ridge, water is trying to get into your house and cause damage! Read Jonathan’s insights and learn how to keep it at bay.
The Victorian House manual from Haynes
The Victorian House Manual By Haynes
A no nonsense book that even Conservation Officers like and use! This book covers some of the most common problems found in houses built in this era, along with some of the more common misconceptions about some of the repairs commonly touted as being able to “cure all ills”.
As you would expect from Haynes these books have great photos and easy to understand and follow instructions. A hard to beat primer for anyone owning or thinking of buying a Victorian (or Edwardian for that matter) house.
Guide to using natural finishes
Lime and Clay Based Plasters, Renders and Paints – A Step-by-step Guide By Adam Weismann
Adam Weismann’s book is more specialized than those above and would suit the hard core enthusiast who wants to have a go at repairing their old walls and ceilings themselves.
Kevin McCloud from Grand Designs comments that it is “A splendid book. A real addition to what’s out there and very complementary to the Society for the Protection of Ancient Buildings’ new technical manual on Old Building Repairs”.
Disclaimer: The next three books are my own… forgive the plug 🙂
12 Ways to Fix Lath and Plaster Ceilings:
Complete Do-it-Yourself Guide for Homeowners, by Ian Anderson
Love them or hate them, I’ll show you what you can do with yours, based on over 30 years of on-site experience. I’ll show you how to evaluate the condition of your ceilings and quickly run through the options you have to repair and keep them.
Alternatively (and sadly); if needs must, I’ll show you how to safely remove them and install new ceilings, either with like for like traditional materials or more commonly, with modern drywall materials.
This complete homeowners guide includes:
- How to inspect and evaluate your lath and plaster ceiling.
- 7 ways to repair and keep your lath and plaster ceilings.
- 5 ways to replace your lath and plaster ceiling.
- Step by step guide to removing your lath and plaster ceiling.
- Levelling up your ceiling joists.
- Installing drywall.
- Further online resources.
Complete DIY Guide for Homeowners: 101 Ways to Properly Look After Your Home and Save Money, by Ian Anderson
Let’s be honest here, home maintenance has a huge image problem. It’s not cool, it’s not sexy and it definitely isn’t ever going to beat the thrill of building something new and shiny, not ever…
But guess what; you know that new and shiny thing you’re building instead of maintaining your home? Yup, it’s going to need maintaining to keep that new and shiny look you so desire.
So relax a little, surrender to it, and since you can’t truly escape it anyway, let a little maintenance creep into your life. Your stuff will love you for it; you will love your stuff for looking so good, and oh; the planet will quite like you for it too.
So, let me talk you into doing a little home maintenance…
How to be Handy [hairy bottom not required]
Build Money Saving DIY Skills, Create a Unique Home and Properly Look After Your Stuff, by Ian Anderson
Do you want to be handy and live a more practical life?
Then this book is for you. Because it’s a different kind of DIY book, one which will take you far beyond trying to blindly follow step-by-step instructions, to where you can stop faking it, and actually make it. To actually be practical; to be handy.
Using Ian’s simple R.E.L.E.A.R.N method you’ll ‘relearn’ how you look at DIY; to see the world through ‘practical eyes’. Relearn how you observe, listen, feel, and smell everything and what it all means. Plus, you’ll know how and where to find the information you need to fill any gaps and create workable solutions for your DIY projects.
You’ll learn how to use a few simple tools to easily transform your home, using your own head, hands, and heart to create something wonderful, fix something you treasure, maintain something you want to keep forever or build something just for fun.
There’s more than 30 years of experience from a professional builder and handyman, packed into this easy to follow method which explains how handy people like Ian tackle practical tasks, (especially the new and unknown), learning ‘just enough’ to get the job done.
Once you experience the physical world like a handy person does, you’ll think like a handy person and then you’ll be able to do anything. Seriously; anything you set your mind to…
Good luck with your own DIY endeavours and work safe.
Comments 22
Do I have to take down the lath if I plan to put up drywall instead of plaster on new ceiling?
Author
Hi Peggy,
Did you find my other page… https://handycrowd.com/repair-lath-and-plaster-ceilings/??
If you read No.7 and No.8 you’ll know as much as me lol!
Good luck with your project and don’t hesitate to get back in touch if I can help in any way.
Cheers
Ian
Thanks for these instructions, just finished taking down a small area of this stuff and you made it easier and less messy (though still messy obvs)
Author
No worries Sonja, that’s why I do it 🙂
Hello,
We have just had a large section of a ceiling fall onto our daughters bed (she wasn’t in it fortunately). We are now faced with the dilemma of bringing it all down or patch over.
Is it possible to baton over the lathe to create a type of suspended ceiling. This will help relieve the massive clean up needed if i bring all the lathe and plaster down.
Author
Hi Simon,
Not sure of you have seen this page of mine… https://handycrowd.com/repair-lath-and-plaster-ceilings/
If you take a look at No.7 I describe such a method and indeed it’s one of the best ways to overboard an old ceiling.
If parts are actually falling down it’s unlikely a repair will be a good idea. Try to avoid overboarding without the tile laths as this is definitely not a great way to do it (although very popular!).
You can go as thin as 19mm but 25mm tile lath is better.
Let me know if I can help in any way,
Cheers
Ian
Hi, great info.
I am preparing to tear down a failed ceiling and replace with plasterboard. It has quite a nice ceiling rose (about 900mm) that I would like to try to salvage and reuse. Any tips for getting this down intact, to re-use?
Author
Hi Nick,
Big ceiling rose to save huh? Well, I’ll not dress it up, they can be quite difficult to get down safely. It all depends on it’s condition, how it’s been fixed in place and whether anyone has ‘had a go’ at making sure it’s secure in the past.
It’s pretty normal for them to be stuck up with adhesive, wired up with a soft wire or screwed up. Sometimes a mixture of them all.
The way I’ve removed them in the past is to cut through the lath and plaster surrounding the rose (carefully with a multisaw type tool, not a reciprocating saw though) and then remove the lath and plaster ceiling as normal. Then you might be able to see if there are fixings (look for wire, screws etc sticking up above the laths.
In case yours has no fixings and is just ‘stuck’ up, you’re going to need to arrange some sort of support quite early on. We usually make up a 2″x2″ framing with a board on top with some old cushions as padding. Remember that they can be quite heavy. 900mm is not the biggest you’ll ever see, but if it’s a little deep it can still be weighty.
Then you can run an old handsaw through the soft-ish plaster between the rose and the lath above the rose. I have a carbide tipped saw used for cutting lightweight blocks which is brilliant for this, but an ordinary hardpoint handsaw is often good enough.
When the saw hits a fixing, mark it and then start somewhere else and saw again until you hit another fixing. repeat as much as you can all around the rose.
Be aware that some of the bigger cornices came, and were fitted in sections (several smaller pieces that make up the whole). This can be difficult to spot if it’s been filled well but it’s worth keeping in mind as you work.
Eventually if you keep ‘piggling’ (technical term) away at the mortar behind the rose and snipping/sawing through any fixings you find the rose will come away from the ceiling and rest gracefully on the cushioned support. All being well.
Lots of potential for things to go wrong and the rose can end up damaged, but don’t forget that even if the rose breaks, it can mostly be re-fitted in pieces and filled/sanded to look as good as new. Small damage can be filled with plaster of paris or a good decorators filler. Once all painted up no one will ever know.
Love to see some pics of the operation! If you send me some good ones, I’ll write up your experience into an article to help out someone else facing the same job in the future. It’s been a while since I’ve removed one, sadly they are getting rarer and rarer to see.
Good luck and take your time.
Stay well
Ian
I really enjoyed your article but it left me wondering. We are refurbishing and remodelling a 1926 bungalow with lath and plaster ceilings, The property will not be occupied throughout this process, including any furniture. The ceiling had lining paper but when removed the ceilings seem solid with numerous hairline cracking. My gut says rip them down and put plasterboard up – it has no historic or special features on the ceilings currently. But, with all the mess involved overboarding seems attractive. Is overboarding just to save the mess, or have I missed something? I’m a enthusiastic and reasonably competent DIYer,
Thanks
Martin
Author
You’re spot on Martin, it really is only to save the mess. If you have room consider putting up some tile battens/lath first. This permanently holds the old lath and plaster in place and gives an easy fixing point for the new plasterboards.
If you need recessed lighting you should bite the bullet though and take it all out. Be easier in the end and then you can have whatever light fittings you want.
It’s not that straight overboarding is bad per se, (I certainly did plenty in my early days), it’s just that the fixing points are difficult to do well. Imagine a long drywall screw going through the plasterboard, the plaster, the lath and then into the joist and you need to stop the screw just before tearing through the paper on the plasterboard. I’ve seen lots of overboarding where more than half the screws were buried into the plasterboard which really weakens the screws hold. Who knows how long those ceilings lasted before showing problems.
Feel free to get in touch if you want to discuss your options more and thanks for the question, it sure is a common one!
Good luck with the project!
Ian
Had trouble repairing lathe and Plaster.I found that the blades for, eg multi tools blunted VERY QUICKLY. Aren’tthere any that will cut wood and plaster? This mainly applies to patch repairs where it’s difficult to remove a damaged area without loosening surrounding plaster. Also – does anyone know of a tool which is able to locate joists/beams underneath lathe and plaster? The usual sonic devices can’t cope with lathe and plaster.
Thanks for a very useful article which I’m encouraging my wife to study………….Pm.
Author
Hi Pete,
Yes, plaster will kill any wood blade in seconds. Have you tried the abrasive blades? This type of abrasive blade (available here on ebay…) is pretty good in plaster, although not cheap. But only use it to cut through the plaster, stop when you get to the lath. Then switch over to the wood blade and hope that there are not any nails in the way……
As for a tool to locate the beam. Nope. No tool can cope with the varying densities it seems, although some do promise that it can be done. The old 3mm drill bit and a hole every inch till you hit wood is still the favorite way and simple to fill in afterwards if you stray out of the area being removed.
Good luck with your ceiling….and the wife 😉
Thanks for reaching out, let me know if I can help in any way.
Ian
thanks for the info , very useful for me. good job 🙂
What can l do with the plaster to dispose of it ?
Author
Hi Stephanie,
Well, assuming you’re not building a new path in the garden (the plaster could go into the sub-base under bricks/paving slabs etc.); then either take it to your local recycle centre and put it in the ‘hardcore’ container (the one with bricks and other concrete stuff). Or of course it can go into a skip/bin/container provided by one of your local waste contractors.
Alternatively, I hear that some folks have luck giving it away via classified adds in local outlets (newspapers/supermarket boards etc). Apparently some folks are always looking for ‘rubble’ for their garden projects. Seems a long shot to me (I’m always looking to get rid of stuff, not acquire it lol!).
Good luck with the project and thanks for reaching out 🙂
Ian
Thank you very much
I have just acquired an old property with cornice and lath & plaster celing – the ceiling is sagging with cracks and needs to come down.. happy to do the dirty work – and leave re-boarding to relevant expert (save some costs), can i protect the cornice (maybe run stanley knife along before pulling down old plaster) – any suggtetions or guidance on protecting cornice would be appreciated
Author
Hi Billy,
You should be able to remove the ceiling and leave the cornice in place. You need to be especially careful on the two sides where the lath is at 90 degrees to the cornice. Where the lath runs parallel to the cornice it comes away easier. We actually cut through the ceiling/lath using a Fein multi tool (the Bosch Multitool is a cheaper version and useful for all sorts of things!). These tools don’t disturb the cornice at all, but it is messy and difficult work. Usually, like you said, you can deeply score the plaster with a knife to get the plaster out of the way and then it’s just the lath to carefully saw through.
If you take down the lath and plaster and depending on your ceiling joist config. (and the size of the cornice) you will then have two extra hurdles to overcome…
First, it’s likely that there will be areas where there is nothing to screw the plasterboards to! Cutting through the lath leaves you short of the joist you see. Usually it’s just a case of adding a little light framing and ‘nogging’ out between the joists to give you something to fasten to.
Second, the plasterboards are likely to be thinner than the old lath and plaster which shows up unsightly lath/plaster at the cornice edge. There are various ways to overcome this difference, some folks use 15mm boards, others pack down the joists with thin timber pieces or even strips of plasterboards. Some just patch up the edge of the cornice and caulk it. I’ve even seen a great plasterer add a 3″ strip of plasterboard around the edge of his boarding (paper edged) and because the edge of the cornice was quite thick, this had the effect (after painting) to make the cornice look much wider as the extra 3″ of plasterboard looked like a part of the cornice instead of the ceiling. Clever.
Another alternative is to board out leaving the existing lath in place, but this really depends on how good/flat the lath is, plus if you need to run a load of new lighting cables etc. With the lath in place you can use board adhesive to strengthen up the edges of the plasterboards in front of the cornice as it will squeeze through the lath just like the original plaster.
Oh, if the cornice doesn’t feel very secure, you can carefully drill and countersink holes though it and use drywall screws into the lath (and the joists on two of the sides at least) but you need to have a real gentle touch for this lol! You’re aiming to just hold the cornice in place, not pull it up tight which might break it and make matters worse. Once filled and sanded, you’ll never know….
So there are a few things to look out for but all totally doable!
Let me know if I can be of any further help and thanks for calling in!
Cheers
Ian
My builder has come and had a look at my very bumpy sort of saggy Victorian ceiling which was also covered in I think 1970s cork wallpaper stuff? V common in our neighbourhood. He says if he pulls the wallpaper off, the plaster will fall and its probably worth addressing the whole room (also with the horrid corky bumpy wallpaper). This would mean tearing everything out. Do I want to keep the lath and re-plaster or remove the whole lot and go with plasterboard? I think he was proposing plaster, not sure. With some sort of lining paper.
Author
Hi Alice,
I would be very impressed if your builder is proposing to keep the laths and re-plaster, as most builders are happier to take everything out and replace it with plasterboards and skim!
It’s up to you and your budget, plasterboards are a permanent fix and will give you a brand new room with flat finishes. Re-plastering the existing laths however will give you a more period finish although might cost more, especially if he uses lime plasters (he should really).
Lining paper wouldn’t normally be required on a new ceiling (because they are new, nice and flat) whichever method you use, unless it’s to fit in with other existing finishes.
Conclusion then. If he wants to re-plaster existing laths with lime products go for that, if he wants to re-plaster using modern (read less flexible) materials then I’d opt for plasterboards and skim.
Hope that doesn’t muddy the water further! Don’t hesitate to get in touch again if I can help.
Thanks for stopping by!
Cheers
Ian
Have a home with lath and plaster walls and a lath and plaster popcorn ceiling built in 1972. What is the best way to remove the popcorn( which is lath and plaster) ceiling so I can have a smooth surface to paint.
Author
Hi Dan,
Unfortunately, 1972 is before the 1978 ban on using asbestos in popcorn ceilings, so it’s possible that yours might contain these dangerous fibers. I would get a sample tested in a lab before you do anything (it doesn’t cost too much). If it does contain asbestos its removal should only be done by a licensed professional. Of course if the lab doesn’t find evidence of asbestos you can remove it yourself, although the process is messy!
The popcorn texture is softened by water and can be easily removed after damping it down with a garden sprayer to soften it, then scraping it off with a large scraper (drywall type is good). Several dampening sessions will be required and allowed to soak in to get it all off.
Lets hope yours is safe and you can go it alone, asbestos is nasty stuff and despite what folk law says, once can be enough.
Good luck and let us know how you get on!
One note though, it’s likely that you’ll need to ‘tidy’ up the plasterwork underneath unless you are very good with the scraper! It’s very easy to dig into the plaster, especially as it will be damp from the spraying. Expect some filling and sanding of scrapes and gouges. Maybe a lining paper afterwards?
Stay well
Ian